Therefore, it was said in the OP, a reference helps in weeding out interpretations from facts, the false from the true. A simple question such as the one asked above is sometimes enough to establish non-facts.
To finish what was said in op: One starts by being responsible to one’s thoughts/actions as was discussed in op. The person holds himself accountable for his/her actions and not escape into ideological delusions like world concern or metaphysical speculations on the nature of thought. This is the beginning of right accounting.
The other part of the accounting is to realize that the person has accepted his/her own state of consciousness or mental standards as the test of reality; all outside its orbit tends to become false or non-existent. This is the sign of the original ignorance which is the root of the ego, that it can only think with itself as center as if it were the All, and of that which is not itself accepts only so much as it is mentally disposed to acknowledge or as it is forced to recognize by the shocks of its environment. This myopic view prevents us from drawing the right and full value from life and indeed is the most widespread aliment of humanity.
But if the human can find in himself/herself the strength to hold themselves responsible to their actions, owns up without escaping, then one may find themselves not alone and separate from the ALL, but as a part of an Infinite movement, and that, it is this infinite which we have to know, to be conscious and to fulfill faithfully, is the commencement of true living. This is the second part of the OP.
Such a person having resolved the false accounts and having put them in order has now earned the right to voice his/her concerns on what’s going around him/her as in “the world is burning”. Without this in-‘person’ order any concern for the world is most likely an escape from seeing the fact that one’s own house is burning.
Note: The disclaimer in op is still in effect and applies to this post as well.
The world is on fire through division and conflict. Each country against another country and so on… Inwardly it is the same . One thought against another thought ,one desire against another desire and so on… Conflict is the fire. Understanding conflict that is brought about through thought is to put out the fire inwardly therefore effect the world outwardly.
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What struck me immensely was the K statement that “thought is fear”. No ‘thinker ‘ being afraid, there is only thought. You could say the same for psychological conflict: thoughts/desires striking up , colliding against one another…creating a ‘minding what happens’ in the ‘minder’…which K said was his secret, he didn’t have one of those.
Yes, that much we “get”, but it doesn’t make much difference because we’re still conflicted; still the problem we know the solution to, but cannot dissolve. We have more knowledge than we can implement, actualize, put to use. We are bodies of knowledge bound by what little we know about what we’re doing.
Is not psychological knowledge the main factor of division and conflict? The Brain is overloaded with psychological knowledge therefore it gradually loses it’s capacity to solve problems.
What is psychological knowledge again please? Is it just what I believe about myself?
I would say not just that but the almost constant movement of thought when it is ‘musing’, reminiscing about the past, worrying about the future, etc basically when it is not necessary…the line between its necessary, appropriate functioning and its unnecessary movement is blurry. When involved in a project that has a beginning middle and end, ‘time’ is involved. But musing about ‘my’ past or my future (“becoming”) IS fear…the line is blurred but if “the thinker IS the thought” then that false duality created by the thinking process ‘must’ come to an end. The ‘thinker’ can’t stop ‘psychological ‘ thought obviously since he is thought itself. There is no method. Only thought itself and its awareness of its own movement and the discernment of when it ‘should’ be operating at all could bring it to a stop, it seems to me. Isn’t this the main issue? The brain’s conditioning, the “stream” that must be “stepped out of”?
Hey! I have been wondering whether what we really mean by this misleading expression - which includes a separation between so called “psychological knowledge” and the other kind of knowledge - would be better served by the word “useful” as opposed to “detrimental” - useful and detrimental with regards to relationship. (Big word at the end of the sentence there, but we’ll ignore it for the moment)
Yes, but only because of our inability to discern the difference between psychological and practical knowledge. If it wasn’t for K’s use of the term “psychological thought”, would we even know there is such a thing? I know only after the fact that my thinking was psychological rather than practical, and only after K informed us that there is such a thing as psychological thought. Had I found out for myself that my thinking was a melange of practical and psychological thought, that insight would have been the end of it. We think we know things that we really don’t know. We’re weighted down and confounded with second-hand knowledge.
You dismiss his discovery because you didn’t discover it first? By experimenting with what was shared by him, you find if it’s so or not so. If you find it’s not so you disregard it but if you find it might be so then if you’re interested you explore it in yourself…and that is first-hand knowledge.
I didn’t “dismiss his discovery”. I accepted it as fact and, although I can’t always tell when my thinking is psychological, I know it often is.
My knowledge of psychological thought is just knowledge - it’s not operational; it’s passive rather than active. I’m constantly reminded of what I’m doing, but that isn’t insight or understanding or comprehension of how the conflicted mind malfunctions. It’s just having some knowledge of what’s going on without seeing and understanding the totality of it.
You don’t know that would have been the “end of it”. He said “the thinker is the thought” for example, second-hand knowledge when you read it, heard it, etc but haven’t you made it ‘your own’ by exploring it in yourself?
The muddled, confused mind does what it can to find clarity and comprehension, and it makes everything it holds and hoards its “own”, including the darkness and confusion that keeps it going. It’s a self-perpetuating process. It can entertain itself with hope and proof of making progress, but it’s just buying time.
Knowledge is consist of experiencing, naming and registering from which thought arises, right?
When you insult me or kick me that experience is named as pain or hurt and is registered in the brain which becomes psychological knowledge. Next time I meet you that psychological knowledge responds as thought and comes between you and me and creates further conflict or division. Is that necessary or useful?
That sounds more like practical knowledge. I need to know who to be wary of, who wants to hurt me.
My understanding of what psychological knowledge is, is any thought that supports or sustains my imaginary self, my chosen identity. Because I lack self-knowledge, I pretend to know things about me that are not true, lest it be obvious how naked, lost, and confused I am.
I would guess that in the ‘new human’ a defensive reaction would be limited to a ‘real’ or physical threat. Determined by intelligence which would be awake and discerning. Now in us it seems it is dormant and our reactions can be like a crazed animal. Not to the fact that the ‘house is burning’ but to…
Does it necessarily create conflict? If I remember you from the last time, it could prove useful. Or does this only work if my attacker was a dog (ie. not a human)?
Again how does this work in relation to cooking or mechanics? Aren’t there people who think that they know how to cook or repair cars, but obviously don’t?
PS - I’d love to move this part of the conversation to the Psychological Knowledge thread - but I don’t think I have the necessary tech ability.
PPS - I’ll repost these questions on that thread - and see how that works
Happens all the time ,you insult me last time therefore I insult you. This has been going on for thousands of year. We merely react to an image that we have built through psychological knowledge about each other. There are people who say that the world is alright and look the other way. But the fact is that the world is indeed on fire.
Are you equating Psy Knowledge with emotional exigence? The problem with Psy Knowledge is that it is knowledge that is attached to an emotion, which forces me to react accordingly?