I don’t know, but it may be because it knows its “control” is distorting and denying what it is aware of, and the prospect of facing this fact after a lifetime of self-deception is more than it cares to do. The corrupt brain may be too obdurate to correct its mistake.
If it was confused all the time it would never suspect or be aware of its confusion.
what happens to brain conditioning at the times when that confusion supposedly doesn’t exist in the brain?
The confusion is like fog. Sometimes the fog is light enough to allow for some clarity. But since the confusion is caused and sustained by the streaming content of consciousness, the fog machine operates constantly.
it could be that the brain, through thought, is misinterpreting Krishnamurti’s words (and thus self-conditioning itself) about the actual role of the brain, the self and thought in the whole process of confusion, by taking Krishnamurti’s words at face value (literally).
If Krishnamurti never intended his words to be taken literally, why didn’t he speak poetically, metaphorically, connotatively, instead of denotatively?
There are those who say psychedelics can loosen the brain, make it more plastic. This makes sense to me, extrapolating from my experiences. If I were really passionate about profound transformation, I’d use drugs as a catalyst. But I think they’re too risky, and I’m more of an evolutionary than revolutionary kinda guy.
No. I’m saying the brain cannot choose to be silent because it has chosen to be “noisy”, i.e., an ongoing stream of consciousness, which is its content.
Until/unless the brain “sees”, understands, why it has chosen to do this, it can’t quit doing it.
Is it fear of unknown in silence or is it because it lacks the capability to be silent.
The brain reacts to fear by escaping through self-deception, dishonesty, and duplicity instead of remaining with fear to understand it.
Yes : we confuse our experience of self (and everything else) with actual reality - we think that we are experiencing reality as it really is - we don’t realise that the self is an experience being projected by the brain.
Everytime the self is being projected it habitually (we can say always) has the authority of truth
Yes - thats our problem, we meet K’s words with the same expectations that we meet all our experiences - because we are that habitual movement of expectation. We hope to manipulate his words in order to progress.
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Yes and when for whatever reason , the self reality breaks down (insight) , there is a freedom from it, a “stepping out of the stream” as K called it, a being in the moment and then a return…to the ‘smog’ of the self reality. The self reality is the realm of ‘analyses’ and ‘judgement’.
I don’t know if it was your rush to give a quick answer to my question (‘what happens to brain conditioning?’) or something else, but i’d say that you didn’t talk about it if that was actually your intention.
You say you have listened to Krishnamurti and you have not yet realised that he never said anything to be taken literally, that he simply repeated for nearly 60 years the same question to anyone who wished to listen to him: “I have discovered something about human suffering. Do you want to take a walk together, “thinking together” about it like two old friends? Because it could be that I might be wrong”.
P.S.: …and that if his supposed famous last words are true, it seems that after nearly 60 years he never found anyone with whom to take a walk together through life, ‘thinking together’ seriously about human suffering.
It’s been a while since we’ve seen danmcderm —
their last post was 7 months ago.
Whaaaat? 
Then @DanMcD and @danmcderm are not the same person?
Yes we are. But neither one is very good dealing with computer stuff! 
And both of us any day now will lose internet for an unknown period as this rural area transitions to fiber optics.
You seem to suggest that brain has chosen to be noisy without knowing or understanding why it made that choice. Is it like some one putting a gun on head and telling choose red or blue or I will shoot. So one choses under pressure without knowing why that choice is made.
Could it be the pressure of fear of unknown in silence that made brain to choose to be noisy as an escape as pointed by you.
So question is what will make the brain to be free from fear of unknown. Is it the sense of " I /self " cause of of fear of unknown. To escape brain chooses to be noisy, resulting in creation of self ,which fearing the unknown then in turn sustains the noise.
A vicious circle indeed.
I’m not suggesting anything. I’m saying the brain chooses its illusions and distortions over choiceless awareness.
@tnp like myself, seems to be confused by the use of the word “choice” in a mechanical system.
But of course in a K forum, faced with the concept of “choiceless awareness” - your use of the word is understandable : it feels like we “choose” between what we like and don’t like.
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To choose either way, you need to have knowledge of all the options to choose between.
A correct starting point for a conditioned brain at the beginning.
So it leads to incorrect action.
If one ask why such a choice? Will the answer be because it could like why humanity took a wrong turn, because it could ( by Boham)
Of course. That’s what choosing is.
Awareness is choiceless for all living things, but the human brain, by holding beliefs about what should/should-not-be, chooses to distort, deny, or dismiss awareness when it conflicts with the its beliefs.
If that’s the correct answer, what we’re saying is that we humans are celebrating our “freedom” to defy what no other living being can deny.
The brain doesn’t choose or believe anything. In order to function it develops this energy called thinking and it doesn’t matter what, as long as one thinks, at whatever level, it keeps working, that is, the grey cells keep functioning.( in the Ending of Time Bohm explains this succinctly). Now, it’s one’s responsibility for the way one lives, to feed this thinking with the appropriate ‘food’ so that one’s life can be lived in order to turn into an accomplished human being. And Krishnamurti says that the reason why this being called human exists is to find truth and that is a religious being.
I think this is poorly expressed, for if we confuse our experience of the self, it would imply that we are one thing and the self is another, the former experiencing the latter. Which would then force us to have to clarify what is this thing that claims to experience the self. So perhaps it would be better to say ‘the self confuses the experience of itself and everything else as real’.
As this is the second time you have used ‘we’ in the same paragraph, I think it would be interesting to know what, according to you, is this ‘we’ that does not realize that the self is a projection of the brain?
And at this point let me also ask, if the self is a projection of the brain, what conditioned the brain initially that made it project that self a posteriori?
Yes, a truth that is sometimes not its own but has been stolen from another (who lives side by side with it), and which it stores as experience as if that truth were its own.
Now, it (the self) is confused about itself and its realities, self-conditioning itself all the time with everything it sees, hears (including Krishnamurti), and thinks it perceives. So what is the next step using our own observation of the fact, and forgetting for a moment all that we have heard from Krishnamurti about it?
I would not say that we hope to manipulate his words in order to progress, but to manipulate his words in order to continue as we are, trying to modify some things that create problems for us, while rejecting any of his words that would somehow force us to give up the things that give us pleasure.
If there is something that characterises many of those who call themselves followers of any of the so-called spiritual masters, it is the lack of sincerity with themselves and with others. Many believe that because they are followers of Jesus, Buddha, Krishnamurti, etc. they already understand everything and can go and ‘evangelise’ the rest of the ignorant who do not know ‘the truth’. Of course, they will never say that the only truth is the one they try to hide from themselves and others by all means.
That is why I say that it is impossible to ‘think-together’, as Krishnamurti used to say, if one does not include/expose oneself in the conversation and only repeats the words of the ‘master’.
In this noisy time spurred by electioneering in america where past and future are wrapped in caricature images is it possible in this circumstance to arrive at a vote based on awareness rather than choice?
It depends on whether you vote or not. A lot of people don’t vote for the same reason a lot of people won’t go to war, eat animals, own an automobile, etc.