Speaking Freely

But what do I need emptying for, or non continuation? When I cannot escape isolation through immersion in reality, because reality is isolation, what is that at that point?

You/I don’t “need “ it because we don’t exist.

‘Acknowledging’ is another kind of conflict - that is one ‘I’ acknowledges another ‘I’.

Just ‘observe’ everything (i.e. I)

Yes. But we are not escaping from what-is and go for what should be.

just ‘observe’ the ‘what-is’ i.e. ‘I’ (in your terms - become honest and ‘observe’).

We are not trying to end anything.

We are just ‘observing’ the ‘I’ as the whole (which is pleasure,comfort,etc…).

Then there will be conflict. If you ‘see’ that - there is a factor of pleasure,comfort in this ‘I’ - don’t stop there. ‘Observe’ that too - see why this factor is present always. Don’t try to escape.

Of - course. But he is saying what is there after ‘observing’ the whole ‘I’ (not escaping with ‘what should be’ and conflict).

You too try to ‘observe’ the whole ‘I’ - see is there something blocks one to observe - if so bring it up - we can inquire about that - we can clear the obstacle - and see it as a whole (i.e. beliefs,images,fear,etc…)

No ‘need’ for ‘emptying/not emptying’ - you can see that actuality is isolation and so fear arises right? - in this very ‘seeing’ - there is an immediate response - unless there is another factor of pleasure,comfort, and trying to seek for it, is present to block one from ‘seeing’ this.

Hi. I think they are not asking - what happens after it ends.

They say this ‘I’ is there - and don’t jump of to end it.

So go on with them from the start ‘I’ - we can learn/inquire together.

@dominic said this,

Just go with him - what this pleasure,comfort and isolation,sufferings - then we all can inquire together.

It was indeed a “jump” to say that “we don’t exist” but from that non-place, the ‘I’ can be seen in its entirety. The ‘I’ which is the fear and suffering and confusion. Where thought struggles to maintain a kind of equilibrium. A false equilibrium based on fear. And to hide the fear.

What do you mean by this non-place?

And from there you are seeing this ‘I’ ?

Then differentiating you from ‘I’ ? :hushed:

What sees the ‘I’ process in the moment? Who? From where? From what ‘place’?

There’s not a “you” seeing it. The ‘you’ / ‘me’ is the ‘self’ / thought?

No there is no differentiation, Psychologically there is only the ‘I’. What ‘sees’ the ‘I’ is ‘awareness’?
Where is this ‘awareness’ located? In the brain? Everywhere? Who can answer that? It is no-thing in no-place?

But it is right that the ‘I’ is fear and suffering. (And throw in “evil” as JK said.)

Yes. Yes. But ‘I’ also includes everything like beliefs,idea,image,pleasure,comfort,etc…

Yes.

In my view - No.

The ‘I’ observes ‘itself’. If we say it is ‘awareness’ - it becomes an agent to look the ‘I’.

The thought gets aware of itself.

The ‘I’ observes ‘itself’ - so there is no other place,person,etc…

I have no problem with that.

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The “I” is just a word, a symbol. It can’t observe or do anything. There is only thought, and it can be confused. It’s confused when it refers to itself as I, or as the self, because these terms don’t help to describe what’s going on. They just muddle the matter.

There’s awareness and there’s thought. Thought is both spontaneous and deliberate. That is, it operates freely, and it operates calculatingly for purposeful reasons. Not all thought is conscious, but that which is conscious, the mind can be aware of and attentive to.

When the mind cares to know what it is doing, it attends to the operation of thought no less than everything else the mind is aware of. But if the mind attends only to deliberate thought, it’s clueless as to what thought is doing spontaneously, which means the mind is more interested in self-promotion, achievement, success, than in self-knowledge.

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Thought/Feeling which is not conscious doesn’t stay that way, it finds manifestation in action as behavior, eventually leading to conflict. Therefore awareness when in operation naturally extends to awareness of action, every movement the physical makes, without needing any additional effort.