Seeing, education and the transformation of society

Hello Tom, well thanks I remember reading that one long ago and not so long ago as well. It happened that such moment took place out of the blue for me more than once. All were linked somehow to be shown to living suffering and not running away by all means as we all usually do all the time, apart from exceptions of moment and or persons. . Then I focus on that part : " It is only when thought and desire come in that there is a gap of time to be bridged. When you see this, this is that”

For me to be willing to work , to analyze, as seen in some after suffering moments, thought needs desires. It needs too some sort of self given satisfactory marks for the job done(proud of me) to simply make it properly and so on. Otherwise thought does not bother to really work, analyzing this and that. Then without desire we would not be here, it is part of the big picture and may have turned itself into THE big picture. Any human functions that way.
Anyway to cut my crap all this is pain, suffering and all of it. I start from pain-suffering without explaining anything at all…as if I, we try to explain we need millennia to go nowhere.
Why take suffering ? Well it is there and obviously must be solved , it also may have some properties, speaking from experiences.
I, as desire-memory-fear etc, feels pain. It analyses it and find no right answer for a cause, of course it invents tons of them all are false.
In doing so thought has of course divided me and pain into two items, this is the way it proceeds.
But there is one item thought is suffering. Thought then is analyzing something which does not exist.
In my own path, whatever it is and value it has, I have learned (as John Raica would say, “the hard way” ), that when I suffer, as said by k here, a gap is bridged by itself. When I suffer means that nothing at all is done about it, no movement of thought takes place, there is pain end of the story, then when pain is there immediately is no pain, pain seems to be in the division operated by thought but there is more according to what I see… this thinking includes explaining, hoping, resisting , facing , running away, negating, getting used to it , to make it short any sort of thought’s thinking about it makes it stronger so does not solve it, it makes it even more painful , and I know for sure that what has become unconscious for us must act the same way, only suffering and its powerful energy can do such miracle if it is lived in my case, as it more value ? Who knows?
For a moment duality, or rather thought’s division me/not me has ceased without searching for it…then miracles take place, as they wishes, it is unpredictable, When this takes places suffering is not .
Then may be k words may say much here?: The other shore may be this shore, and so you are swimming away from it. If I may suggest it: stop swimming
cheers…

In some ways this energy which is in what we call suffering is in fact our only little helper ?? It is so repulsive that one must properly act…

Yes. I’ve seen the same at times. Fighting against the pain brings pain. No fighting…no pain. I don’t know…I put it too simply maybe…just got up and having coffee…will come back to this later time and energy permitting. We’re still dealing with a lot of illness in my household so there’s not a lot of time and energy for other stuff.

I found this : K: Sir, what I’m trying to get at is : can a human being live only in the present - in the sense of living with ‘what is’ all the time and not with ‘what should be’ or ‘what has been’ ?

in a K and Bohm dialogue.

As if not this is troublesome. It really sounds like another dimension, it probably is…two worlds, one where thought leads, conflicts, war , suffering, and…not that.

Yes, the present IS another dimension…it’s totally outside of the dimension of time/thought/knowledge/belief/ideals/etc

Avoidance of pain is natural. I do agree that side-stepping suffering - if possible - is a solution. Others may see it as escapism and the wrong thing to do.

Aren’t we already genetically charged with life drive. Struggle is already underway before fertilisation has taken place. Most spermartozomes arrive at the egg too late. Young children are already jealous before they know what jealousy or possession is.

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Is it the struggle of the sperm to be first to reach the egg that is transferred in thought to be ‘successful’ in life? To be rich, famous, accomplished, enlightened, etc? To win the prize?
To be first?

I have no idea if that is the process of life. But it makes one think that the first impulse to live is a struggle and all who were late died on the spot. But is the step from the biological to psychlogical an obvious one a logical one?

A firstborn not wanting to share her parents’ attention with the newborn?

Nobody teaches children to claim possession it is apparently in them before they can speak.

Observation is disconcerting.

Nature is “disconcerting”! Very very few examples of compassion, generosity, kindness. But for some adult humans those traits seem to be associated with a kind of ‘maturity’? That maturity for me, is our ‘possibility’, our birth right (?) the shedding of the ‘cocoon’ of the self?