Living in time and out of time

Is it possible to wonder about what can’t be imagined? The mind has its limits, and what can’t be imagined or hypothesized can’t be pondered. Consider, for instance, the radical transformation of the brain K spoke of. We try to imagine it, the absence of self, ego, but it’s impossible because thought personifies itself, and it can’t cease to do so until or if it is supplanted by something not willed or dependent on a mechanical process.

People who have used psychedelic substances claim that they experienced the loss of the ego, psychological death, etc., but whether they had a glimpse of what is possible or an elaborate fantasy, can’t be ascertained because, being temporary, the experience amounts to little more than a waking dream.

These three meditation instructions from Tilopa point to the “not of time” I’m talking about:

No past.
No future.
No present.

The full set:

No past
No future
No present
No analysis
No control
Rest in being awareness.

What is described here is unimaginable for the mind that knows only images. The mind knows what the words mean but can’t know what they describe until, or if, the mind is beyond words and images.

The mind that desires to be beyond words and images doesn’t see how it is perpetuating the misery it wants desperately to escape.

Please explain so I understand you properly.

The self-centered mind is limited by its conditioning to perceive in terms of what-should/should-not-be. But according to Krishnamurti and others, the mind can cease to be self-centered and limited by its conditioning. This mind, not limited to thought, imagery, words, i.e., language, is what Krishnamurti called “intelligence”, and we can’t imagine what that is because a two-dimensional mind cannot imagine three dimensions.

Upon hearing about this mind, this intelligence, the limited mind wants it because it is inadequate and unenlightened, and it can’t pursue, seek, or strive for what it can’t possibly imagine. Until It realizes this, it is chasing its tale of what-should-be.

Krishnamurti and others say that the limited mind can awaken to its limitation, see its activity for what it is. Thus, the limited mind hopes and strives to awaken, but it can do nothing but move within its limits.

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I understand, thanks. I doubt anyone can be totally free of their conditioning. Our past saturates our entire being. And, yet, every moment is unprecedented! It’s a paradox.

To keep thinking it is an ability, and that there are mitigating circumstances, ways to live as we do, simply absorbing the new ideas, etc, all that, is I, self, ego. We can see this by the way we always think choice is an option, rather than look at this factor called choice. We just don’t see choice is the movement away from a compelling truth, and is distraction.

Always? In every instance? Certainly not. Choosing is necessary. It is the ability to discern and discriminate. Choice is not a problem, “a movement away from a compelling truth” or “distraction” when it is neither, which is more often than not.

Observe yourself closely and you’ll see that you exercise choice constantly because you can’t do anything without choosing.

Doing anything is the choosing. We are asking, why are we living this way, doing anything, not understanding this activity is violent?

Why are you still asking this question? Isn’t it clear that the mind is conditioned, and that the conditioned mind can’t do anything it isn’t conditioned to do or not do? All we can do is observe this in ourselves from one moment to the next, and be mindful of what’s actually going on. Then, at least, we’re not foolishly trying to do what cannot de done, and urging others to do the same.

What amazes me is the way the mind works. It can say something and be repeating the actual content of its own objection. Its the false moral virtue of a preacher.

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Be specific. Make it interesting. You’re just tossing words around.

Its the false moral virtue of a preacher.

Good example of projection. Which one of your sermons should I use to show whose doing the preaching?

Do you see this projection?

Do you see this projection?

Do you see this one?

OK, I see you have no interest in talking together, so I have to say, its finished. I am out of this.

I’d like to believe it, but this isn’t the first time you’ve said this…