“Fear is the mind-killer.” Along with greed, hatred, delusion, anger, and other nasties. For my money, the worst of the bunch is delusion. If that’s there (and it invariably is for unenlighteneds), all hell is free to break loose.
Hi Emile
What does it take to see the separation happening in our thoughts? When that realization will happen in the system? How it is gonna affect the self?
Can I say that finding truth or falseness on insignificant aspects of life, related to curiosity?
Sometimes, I feel the same.
Yet it wants to grasp totally that which is apparently outside of itself. So where actually is the passion in all this?
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I know. Most of us prefer the magnification of a facile network into an unfathomably complex formula. It’s still the me.
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As has been oft repeated on this thread : all the normal kids are out there gaining experience and knowledge points for their power base, in order to ensure future success.
Automatically driven along by pleasure and pain.
(Because our thoughts and emotions are like hard reality for us : this is the delusion)
Initially, I started enquiring about the self because of gaining experience and knowledge as you said. Now I do not know exactly, why I give attention to you people in this forum. I think the satisfaction in having conversations about the spiritual aspects related to life is driving me.
Are we here to condemn fear or understand it?
As long as the experience is interesting to me (pleasure) - I want to keep it - This is the movement of self.
Conversations have a life of their own - we cannot control where they end up - I like questions first, tentative definitions, poetical descriptions - but sometimes we start shouting : “wtf! look at what you are saying man!” - and hopefully we have the clarity to remain silent when need be.
PS - re : useless answers. The answer is only useful as far as it reveals the questioner - so its pretty much useless, because by that time we have forgotten our neediness for an answer.
They are real, aren’t they? The thought “The apple is singing” and the emotions of awe and amazement are real existents.
Yes, of course. If I believe that something is so, I really am believing that something is so (or feeling the feeling I’m feeling - thinking the thought etc)
Both reduction and magnification distort. Yet they are built into our way of thinking, perceiving, into our language and imagination. They enable us to navigate the world … but prevent us from clearly seeing what actually is.
So they are real, but not “hard reality.” Please explain.
We think that what we see/feel/know is a true representation of reality. Rather than a projection of our conditioning for the purposes of survival.
We are slaves to our projections - as if they were accurate and undeniable.
For example, I have an itch (or some other urgent urge) - we automatically scratch - if we cannot scratch, what happens?
For example, the doctors have to cut you open, but you are allergic to anaesthetics, a hypnotist manages to persuade you that nothing painful or frightening will happen during the operation - the doctors cut you open and you feel fine - why?
PS - Zazen (or choiceless awareness, goaless seeing) is far far more useful (for liberation and clarity) than explanations. (though explanations are more fun)
No, we are looking at it, that’s all. There may be nothing to understand.
So what are we looking at? Where is the truth about what we are? Where is the truth about fear?
Can there be thoughts that are true representations of reality?
Yeah, that’s the question, isn’t it?
Can you define thoughts for us ? - you may already have the answer
In the same way that you were able to define the experience of self for us - that enabled us to see that it was fear.
Simplicity unfortunately does not necessarily tether us to clarity - such is the conflicting confusion of all the data from stored experience that rises up and confuses us