Is the self anything but fear?

[macdougdoug]

You think that IT is an answer.

[rickScott]

@macdougdoug

@nobody

@anon78228991

There is no answer.

But that is an answer! And a definitive one at that, since it shuts down a whole avenue of possible exploration.

We can debate whether no answer is an answer - but the only avenue that is shut down is one of knowledge/answers/conclusions.

But that might be the very avenue that leads to the truth.

@macdougdoug

Are conclusions (answers, knowledge) my goal?

Soft conclusions are my goal: stepping stones between where I am now and the truth. Each of these soft conclusions provides a clue to the mystery of “What is really going on here?”

You?

[rickScott]

@macdougdoug

You think that IT is an answer.

I guess I think/believe/(hope!) that IT is The Answer.

You?

[macdougdoug]

I think that you still have great faith in your self - you may be the first to find the solution in your self. That you are/have the solution to your fears/hopes.

I presume that this is because you have not really seen what fear/hope, knowledge, conclusions/answers is.

[rickScott]

@macdougdoug

I think that you still have great faith in your self - you may be the first to find the solution in your self.

Cool! If I find it I’ll definitely share.

I presume that this is because you have not really seen what fear/hope, knowledge, conclusions/answers is.

Oh I’ve been looking at those guys for years. Decades! I’m pretty clear on what they are and how they work. I just enjoy playing with them. I know the snake is really a rope, but I choose(?) to keep make-believing it’s a snake.

[macdougdoug]

And why not? As long as we’re all still mostly having fun!

[rickScott]

You really think that … or are you being sarcastic? (Hard to tell from text alone.)

[macdougdoug]

I’m trying to be as serious and as honest as possible - anything else just doesn’t seem fair - I’m basing this on the assumption that we’ve only got one life and we’re all in it together.

And also because (from my experience) saying : “you silly boy! you should be thinking this, this and this” would be a mistake.

nb. If you’re mainly enjoying yourself, there is no need to understand suffering.

[anon78228991]

@nobody

I’m driven by the notion that for my life to have been worth while, not wasted, I need to have gotten IT before I travel westward ho. And though I feel I have glimpsed IT several times, I don’t feel I have ever gotten IT.

What is a worthwhile life? You haven’t even put the question. You have already decided on an answer.

[sivaram]

If the self consists of fear, then why crime is happening in our societies?

[macdougdoug]

@sivaram please explain your thought process - the question :

@sivaram

If the self consists of fear, then why crime is happening in our societies?

seems to make no sense. A bit like : “If balloons are red, then why does it rain?”

What is the connection between the “if” and the “then”?

Maybe you are saying that fear of punishment should outweigh desire of gain?

If so the answer is : what we think “should be”, is merely a projection based on information, if it does not reflect reality, it just means that your data and analysis are faulty and/or incomplete.

nb. fear of loss & desire for gain are the same process in action. So are fear of danger & desire for security, fear of pain & desire for comfort, fear of death/desire for life etc…

[DanMcD]

Thought created the self, the self image and perceives the world through that image : I am here and the ‘other’ is there. It locked itself into an isolation from everything. It has tried every means to reconnect to that which it was never really separate from. Thought cannot free itself. It can only pose questions and give more and more clever answers but it cannot free itself. Realizing the futility in ‘trying’, yet feeling the urgency for change, there can arise a desire to ‘listen’ to oneself, inclusively, to see oneself in a new way. To discover the ‘unknown’…to be in the unknown, the unknown that is beyond ones thinking.

[macdougdoug]

Only a madman will jump into the void - a healthy self recoils from certain death.

[DanMcD]

Seeing, listening, isn’t ‘jumping’ is it? The “void” is an invention of thought trying vainly to imagine what might be beyond itself. We don’t know. It is unknown.

[macdougdoug]

@DanMcD

Seeing, listening, isn’t ‘jumping’ is it?

True, true, maybe I should have said “allow themselves to fall”.

@DanMcD

The “void” is an invention of thought trying vainly to imagine what might be beyond itself.

Maybe a bad choice/loaded word then (like comparing reality to emptiness instead of suchness) - I like void because I see it as “void of me” ( a me shaped hole? ) - a place where I am not must seem pretty empty for a healthy sense of self?

[DanMcD]

@macdougdoug

a place where I am not must seem pretty empty for a healthy sense of self?

And scary, that’s what ‘thought IS fear’ means doesn’t it?

[rickScott]

@macdougdoug

If you’re mainly enjoying yourself, there is no need to understand suffering.

Suffering drives us to a large extent, subtly to dramatically. If your goal is to enjoy, understanding how suffering manifests and works is really important.

[rickScott]

@anon78228991

What is a worthwhile life? You haven’t even put the question. You have already decided on an answer.

I might not have put the question here, now, but it’s been with me for a long time. What matters? There have been many answers, but none that I could point to and say: That’s IT!

[macdougdoug]

@nobody

If your goal is to enjoy, understanding how suffering manifests and works is really important.

If your goal is an escape from suffering (aka the movement of self) this is just the exigence of fear.

Desire for comfort is fear of discomfort.

The best response would be Valium without the side effects.

However, if you really want to understand suffering, you must see the totality of the movement which includes the goal of enjoyment. You must see that the goal of enjoyment is the suffering.

[macdougdoug]

@nobody

but none that I could point to and say: That’s IT!

But despite your experience you still believe that IT is an answer. (The most wonderful and bestest answer of course)

@nobody cleverness and imagination, great as they are as motors for the recycling and progress of culture - can actually be an added difficulty when it comes to psychological death/choiceless awareness/freedom from thought - also freedom of thought is not the same as freedom from thought.