K is not unique, maybe so for a western mind not accustomed to the intricacies of eastern philosophy, especially of Hinduism. K likely have absorbed it from his Theosophical upbringing. Setting that aside, the very idea of comparison is beside the point for the readers or listeners, especially past the point of realizing that a change in direction is inevitable in the course of one’s life.
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In 1985 I was in Lonavla (or Lonavala as sometimes it was spelt) attending a yoga course in one of the best institution in India for this discipline. At least I was assured so by Dr Parchure who seemed to know.
One of the subjects of study was the traditional theory about kundalini, chakras, etc. Something I had studied already on my own at home and so I was curious to know it better from the voice of the “experts”. The teacher read aloud to the class the two most important ancient treatises on this matter. In one of those books the author said that kundalini lay in one particular chakra, while the other book placed it in a different chakra. I raised my hand and asked to the teacher: " But where is actually Kundalini?". The teacher looked at me silently as if he had not understood the question. After a while he said" According to this author is here, according to the other author is there". I was astonished… I repeated my question but the teacher was imperturbable and repeated his previous answer… to him the question was closed. I understood that those “experts” had nothing to teach me but a second hand and confused knowledge.
This is just a small example, there have been several of those episodes which comfirmed my impression. I had wasted my money, time and passion in India, but perhaps my “western mind was not accustomed to the intricacies of eastern philosophy”?
P.S. 25 July
What has this to do with K.'s uniqueness? A word to the wise…
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When I was young I questioned my reality a lot and early on I came to understand that most adults (family, friends, priests, teachers, etc) were either did not know, not interested in questioning, crass in their answers, too busy or etc. Whatever the case, I pressed on and seeked answers from my personal education and books. With every new idea, I would die to what I knew previously and try my best to begin fresh without bias. But once I would get to the core ideas, with my limited conditioning, I would find faults, contradictions, issues with the logic or get nowhere and so then search continued yet again. Before K’s conditioning, I thought that this approach was appropriate. I thought I could accumulate as much knowledge from those who have dedicated their entire lives to finding the truth and then I can pick and choose what was reasonable, experiment with it and integrate it into my life. I have tried understanding different philosophies, travel, Yoga, ordained as a Buddhist nun, several long Vipassana retreats, etc. Ultimately, this approach allowed me to be open to new ideas, skeptical of conclusions but then find myself in the same place over and over again. Seeking.
From my limited conditioning, what made K unique, was that his teachings inspired me to investigate everything for myself through my own observation. To investigate why I desire this very search, the effort, and etc. I didn’t find complete methods or answers in K’s teachings as I was used to but more like the motivation to stop in this direction and perhaps to really look all around. In this all around observation, in some moments, I feel insecure and hence the reason why I find myself on this forum, but at other moments I feel empowered and content in my very own investigation. He may have not been the only one saying what he has stated but he was the only one to have deeply moved me as he did.
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I had been following traditional approach like bhakti, meditation yoga etc from around age of 19/20, till around age of 42 when one of my friend introduced me to K by handing over a book ’ Bird in flight". After reading about 2/3 pages I threw it saying what K is saying about thinker and thought are one is rubbish. But something in me kept saying pickup and read again. After few days feeling bored, I picked it up again and lo my whole world of spiritualism came crashing down. However much I tried to convince my self that my old tradional approach was correct, I could not find a single way to convince myself what K is telling is wrong. After reading K, I became aware of problem with traditional way, even though mind becomes calm , it becomes dull too and also ego does not weaken. Ego keeps comparing howuch I have progressed, how attractive and peaceful I became, all traps.
But one problem I faced with K’s teaching is that one tends to fall into trap of intellectual understanding of teaching and live in illusion that one has understood. It took me quite a long years to come out of this trap and actually ‘see’ what K was pointing to. To me K is unique, more than other eastern Gurus, Buddha with his eightfold path ( or was it his followers who created this 8 fold path and attributed it to him).
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Why say Krishnamurti was unique if you can’t give your reason for saying it?
It is unique in the sense there is no goal to achieve or method to reach it, unlike other systems had come across.
If we observe - why the Bhakthi/vedas may be invented is - intellectually people may be low on those days. So, crimes/fight/etc… may be much higher. So to control that - The Kings(Manus,etc…) may have invented laws - but crimes does not stop - so the gurus(Vyasa,etc…), may have invented a person - that is seeing us - there is heaven,hell,purgatory based on our karma(till date we don’t know whether it is there or not) - so one may fear about that - so that one may adhere to rules(vedas,bible,quran,paths) & temporary peace may be achieved in the world. But as the intellect grows/learns day by day - ‘you know what happened’
Yes, we doesn’t know whether Krishna,Jesus,Allah,Buddha,Sikh guru - had told any way. They just expressed their observation in their view of ‘what is there permanent’ (in Upanishads,Bhagavad gita,etc…) - as K did. But the followers - may have changed it into rules and started to follow it.
May be in few years - there will be some compiler and put forth every enquiry/observations of K - into a steps, and preach the path and become followers of K too.
Speaking truth is definitely unique.
Whatever happened to standing alone, stepping out of one’s own way, and simply allowing truth to manifest?
Pain.
These teachings are not clearly observed by the people(who called themselves - disciples) - and they change from previous attachment to this new attachment. On this attachment - they got pride,money,fame,satisfaction,‘business’,etc… So, this does/will not stop - whoever ‘K,a,b,c,d’ says - until each & everyone observes the actuality.
i.e.
In-depth observation of sufferings.
As per Gautama’s history, he was once a prince. Astrologers predicted that the King’s son - may become a big king or spiritual teacher(sankhya). Hearing this king - gave all comfort to the prince and kept him within the castle. One day he escaped the castle - and found every people he met was starving(suffering) to death. So he renounced that life - and went to a forest - to observe within - why this all happens. Then “Bang” - everything vanished psychologically. You may have seen his/‘Buddha’ sayings - are mostly based on desires,sufferings. So many scholars cling to those words - compare it with K’s & proclaimed that K is a ‘buddhist’.
The same happened to Rama too. In India - once a prince learned all the scriptures - he has to visit many kingdom’s to learn the actuality. After seeing all this(sufferings until death) - he returned back to kingdom - and hadn’t ate much. The King(Dasaratha) found his position much worse. Then the history says - Vashista - a sage - teached Rama - the actuality of this Universe(outer) and Brahman(inner) - which is called ‘Yoga Vashista’.
Many Sages - had written down their observations of that ‘Infinity’ - and explained them to people. But they(disciples) formed a sect - called Advaita Vedanta, and became a scholar - in those writtings(Upanishads) & the business goes on. Here noteworthy is - Ramakrishna & Swami Vivekananda is an exceptions from all the Vedantists. They too observed and expressed their opinions - and are against the ideals/way. (If you have time - just read “Practical Vedanta” of Vivekananda, not as a disciple, but as a story/history).
In case of K - he was teached about Bible,yoga - in Theosophical Society. But it’s of no use, when his brother(who he is much attached to) died - he couldn’t come out from the pain. He observed the actuality. Then “Evanesco” - everything vanished psychologically.
At last - what remains there - which has neither birth or death is the ‘Love,Compassion,The One,Truth,Permanent,Unlimited,God,Conscuiousness,Emptyness,Brahman,etc…’ which cannot be expressed in words - and can only be felt.
Here we can see the mythology forming in real time - beliefs and conclusions projected as truth for other believers to integrate into our world view (usual human stuff - no wicked conspiracy needed)
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Looking to the past for solutions brings only more of what we have already. Does it not?
Of course. Of course. The world we live at present, with all it’s sufferings,fear,etc… is itself enough. If we cling to past - then the circus goes on.
When we compare two great philosophers together are we not destroying both of them in our mind?
Are there any understanding or awareness in comparison?
Krishnamurti on his teachings:
There is nothing new under the sun. Everything has been thought out, every manner of expression has been given to thought, every point of view has been shown. What has been said will always be said and therefore there can never be anything new from the ordinary point of view; you can only vary the expressions, using different words, different connotations, and so on.
- November 7, 1929
- International Star Bulletin, March 1930
Ks’ summation of his teaching was ‘observe yourself, understand yourself, go beyond’.
I seriously wonder why mankind spends its whole life discussing ad infinitum whether this or that person told the truth or not, constructing thousands of theories about it which are then transformed into books written by self-styled shepherds capable of guiding the flock of ignorant people who have been made to believe that they need interpreters to know the truth, instead of sending all those interpreters to the trash and trying to find out for themselves the truth or falsity of what was said.
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Take K’s statement: “You are the world”…how do I find out for myself if that is an actual fact and not some just poetic idea? If it is a fact, it is very important for us to see. Because if we are the world and the world is us and we see that, that is the end of conflict. Very important for humanity to see that obviously. But how do I find out if it’s true? I believe that he saw it but of course I can’t know that. Intellectually it makes sense to me but that is as far as it goes…I did have when I recently read about this again, what I would call a flash of ‘insight’ into the truth of it, but ‘wishful thinking’ might have had something to do with that. So maybe to answer your question of why we are attracted to ‘interpreters’, perhaps we are are hoping that different words will trigger the insight or the perception that we ACTUALLY are the world and that our present idea of what we are is just an unfortunate illusion!
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I think this is what motivates us to take Krishnamurti seriously.
There is no way, no technique to go beyond thought (words, images, stories, explanations} and beyond emotions (fear, desire, greed, anger, envy, etc.). There is nothing to do but care enough to be acutely aware of one’s thoughts, emotions, and behavior, for no other reason than to find out what one is actually doing.
Then, it seems to me, self-knowledge is not a matter of time but a matter of how serious one is about knowing what self is.
It’s not a matter of time and also not a matter of knowing. As can be observed from this thread, people are hung up on knowledge as the solution, which quickly comes to a frustrating and often cynical dead end (conclusion).
The uniqueness of K is that he was inquiring and lots of these dialogues were recorded afresh, not merely transcribed and translated into texts and dogmas. There is interest to find out if anyone else has been recorded seriously inquiring.