Is K still relevant?

It’s relevant if it interests you and you want to find out for yourself.

I understand that you have to live in this world. You have responsibilities and relationships that demand things of you. You have to get up every morning and go about your life sifting things out. So what is important is listening to yourself. When you tell yourself something it is not always true is it? when you feel trapped it is not every moment is it? When you feel anything it is not permanent is it? There are always more options then the ones we tell ourselves in life. There is always more to learn about life for ourselves, and about relationships. Can you see that too? Life does not have to be lived as nothing but pain, and self control. I can assure you real inquiry can make your life better than merely getting by and maybe depressed. or sad, or feeling trapped every day? We do not have to believe in enlightenment to change ourselves, especially into learning inquiring human beings. The human brain loves to learn in life much more than any self loves to know and store useless knowledge. See these things for yourself.

Yes, I want to find out for myself what is the true nature of this pain I carry with me. Therefore, why turn to anything else? This pain is fully relevant, real, living, true. Turning towards the teachings of another is like turning away from the truth.

Is it because it makes the pain more tolerable that people turn towards the teachings?

See what things? It seems you are concerned only with showing me a picture of a better life, of finding for me a way out of my pain. But I am not depressed or sad about it. I don’t feel trapped in any way. Yet, strangely, the moment one starts to turn towards a solution - like the so-called teachings - the feeling of being trapped is very strong.

What I mean is that one feels trapped by the expectation of the teachings.

Then, any attachment to the teachings - whether it is K, Buddha, Jesus or anyone else - is only going to create more pain in my life because I am no longer capable of thinking for myself as an authentic human being.

What expectation in life does a child feeling joy have, when conditioning has not taken root in that child? A child that has not been programmed or conditioned to believe a material life, an adult slavish life will lead them to a greater joy is free psychologically to receive joy then and now? Are they not? So are you saying I like my adult conditioning, even though it brings me great pain, and the teachings promise me something other than the joy I received freely as a child in that previous now? Are you attached to the teachings like you are attached to Hinduism and its ancient insane belief systems. Have you found a belief in the teachings to attach to? Please tell me what you expect from them not what you assume they are offering everyone like any rotten religious system that gave you absolutely nothing except human insanity, a mechanical life full of sadness, pain and guilt over not becoming a perfect human being? Do you really believe human beings are born needy, not whole, defective, incomplete, as so called creative mistakes, and need psychological leaders in life to correct themselves and put themselves on a better course in life? J.K. was not a final word or authority and the teachings cannot produce an organization like a religion, unless they are misused and turned into a hierarchical system of beliefs. No promises no rewards only reason, and common sense, begin there fresh not with any expectations. You as an individual learning and inquiring in relationships, are more important to life, and living than the rotten Hindu superstitions, that produced the programmed Hindi nationalists, diseased personal dualistic life.

I don’t know what you like or don’t like. I don’t know anything about the joy of a child. But you have pain and hurt in your life, don’t you? That much is clear.

Which is why (if you’re not playing a game) you shouldn’t be here.

You need to solve your problem all by yourself, yet you’re here telling us that “any attachment to the teachings - whether it is K, Buddha, Jesus or anyone else - is only going to create more pain in my life because I am no longer capable of thinking for myself as an authentic human being”.

So be authentic and avoid all teachings, all teachers, all those who you are begging to help you.

But I am not asking for help. I never even hinted that I am asking for help or even that this is some kind of a problem for me. That is your own interpretation of it. All I am doing is questioning whether K and his teachings has any relevance in our lives when there is something else very close by, very near to each one of us, that is undeniably relevant. I hope it is clear what I am taking about by now: the pain of daily living.

Yet apparently you have no pain in daily living. Otherwise, we would be approaching this quite differently. Again, I am not asking for help or advice or looking for a quick escape or answer. I am requesting a dialogue about all this with anyone who cares to join in.

You remind me of someone who frequented this forum who was obsessed with “meeting” someone; getting someone to dialogue with him on his terms. After years of being a nuisance, he finally “met” someone outside of this forum and rudely departed to carry on with this person.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you were the same person playing the same game all over again, but even if you’re not, you’re diverting attention from our interest in K’s teaching to your neurotic craving for attention.

One could see this as a good thing in that you’re demonstrating how self-absorbed we are as egos with nothing better to do than imagine what we must have to be happy, content, and pleased with ourselves.

Your interest in K’s teaching may be equally neurotic. How do you know it is not?

As for me, I am aware that there is pain in my daily life, with my family chiefly, and also with a friend or two. Don’t you have the same issue to some degree or another? Maybe there is someone around here who will be honest about this before looking elsewhere for their salvation. It’s a simple enough request, but for some reason it has stirred you up.

So either join in or stay quiet. It is all the same to me.

Is Krishnamurti himself relevant?

“I am nothing but dead memories,” he said. Where is the relevance in being that?

Are the things Krishnamurti shared with humanity relevant?

Say they point to the Truth. Then they are relevant to the extent that Truth is relevant.

Do they point to the Truth? How would we know?

My life is painful. The truth of this is all around me. Nobody needs to point it out. But instead of looking closely at this pain, people want to point to other things that to me seem so irrelevant.

I wonder now why you call it Truth and not truth. Perhaps this is at the heart of the issue which I am attempting to open up for discussion here. My point is that the truth about ourselves is right here at our feet, in the mud of our daily lives, as it were. Until we have looked very carefully and intensively at the truth that is right in front of us, any talk of a Truth that may or may not exist somewhere else in an ideal sort of dream world just seems so dangerous.

Also, there has already been a significant change, I feel, and I am pretty sure that I am not deceiving myself. By telling you that my life is painful, by exposing this truth to the world, the nature of the pain has begun to alter. This now seems highly relevant.

Do you believe sharing your pain and problems with others is your “salvation”?

So either join in or stay quiet. It is all the same to me.

Join in with what? You’re the only one who knows why you’re here.

How many times do I have to say it? Pain. Hurt. Life. At least, life for humans, anyway.

My pain and hurt, my life, is none of your business and I’m not interested in reading about yours.

You are your problem, so if you aren’t the solution, will you waste your life searching for someone to help you do what you don’t care enough to do on your own?

If you can’t be a light to yourself, what’s the alternative?

Then keep away and stay quiet. I’m sure there is somebody who will discuss this with me. And, if they do, that is none of your business, is it?

We human beings generally desire to be loved unconditionally by others for ourselves. Don’t we? It is interesting to see that we. I really mean most of us place more value on being loved by a particular few other human beings we know, than being a learning human being. One that is exceptionally wise, caring, sharing, loving when possible,and generally kind but not accepting of tyrannical bully’s treatment of innocent fellow human beings. Generous and good matured, but not to a fault and not to real violent criminals. Humane in our judgements of others, and occasionally creative artistic generous and humble human beings.

Is that because we do not see the whole state of living love, the real evolutionary movement of an expansive evolving awareness in our physical organisms? Which includes awareness as the carrier wave of intelligence, creativity, humor, humility, generosity, kindness, fairness, insights, perception, understanding, real inner light, wisdom goodness and love? Is it that we do not see goodness is generally directed towards all others, but not tyrants as serial killers, and also includes an ageless wisdom in our general relationships? A wisdom that lifts the spirits of trampled on decent human beings up, rather then merely destroying them with cleverness and tearing them all down for making mistakes on their own .

Maybe we do not understand all the wonderful children, the offspring, of the well of all life, not the mankind invented falsely lived selfish life of only one species, one religion, one nation? A life that generally ends in sorrow, if we live a full long life without ever considering the end result of a programmed life? Or understand the parts of life, the gifts, of living in the real gentleness of love. A movement of wisdom, that can never be separated from Love. A movement that goes along with the new state of revolutionary love of learning, flowing adapting, that mankind’s innocent children really deserve?

Maybe if we did we would not ask the question that seeks only our selfish pleasure, only personal rewards, only pleasure but not happiness or the movement in life of human goodness, sharing, caring and love? Why should I be an Inquirer in life myself? What is in it for me? Absolutely nothing is in it for the Me, and everything is in it for the real individual that cares more about themselves in relation to all other living beings, and cares deeply for the health of the whole planet, the whole species, than just their namesake families, their religion, and nation, and themselves, as ideologically superior, more special, more deserving of a good life over all others everywhere on earth. See these things for yourselves.

I’m sorry, but you are ignoring my question. You have pain in your life, don’t you?

What I am pointing to with Truth is the opposite of an ideal dream world. Not-Truth is the dream world, staying with the spelling, truth is the dream world. I agree it’s important to explore the truth that is right in front of us, and exploring Truth has risks. Vigilance is needed! :slight_smile:

I can’t stop you from seeking someone in this forum to sympathize with you, but I might continue to point out what a good example you are of what Krishnamurti said about the self-centered human brain, and why it needs to undergo a radical transformation.