Freedom from the self

[rickScott]

@macdougdoug

Its so sad to see the most powerful species on the planet so full of fear.

Fear definitely is a party pooper.

[rickScott]

@Inquiry

Wouldn’t the failure of the self be no confidence?

If the self receives a vote of no confidence, will it be fired?

[Inquiry]

I am the self saying the self will fail because believing the self will fail is what sustains the self.

The self hasn’t failed until it cannot believe anything, and that inability, that innocence, is its transformation.

[danmcderm]

@macdougdoug

though it is the only thing of importance (with regards to freedom from the known/self) : our relationship to experience.

Coming back to this idea that what we are is nothing (not-a-thing), the observation of ourself is the seeing of the “escaping” from the fear of being nothing. It is unthinkable to be nothing? The brain is conditioned to be something, ‘someone’. This seems to be the jist of the K message; no wonder none or very few ‘got it’.

[Inquiry]

@danmcderm

The brain is conditioned to be something, ‘someone’. This seems to be the jist of the K message; no wonder none or very few ‘got it’.

I think we all “get” this, but what we don’t understand is how the brain sustains its illusion of being something, someone. It seems that the only way to find out is to be aware of how thought keeps affirming its belief in itself.

[rickScott]

You begin by describing the scam nicely:

@Inquiry

I am the self saying the self will fail because believing the self will fail is what sustains the self.

And then you fall for it:

The self hasn’t failed until it cannot believe anything, and that inability, that innocence, is its transformation.

???

[rickScott]

@danmcderm

The brain is conditioned to be something, ‘someone’.

A while ago, a good friend said to me: “You know what your problem is, Rick? You believe you are somebody.”

[danmcderm]

@Inquiry

I think we all “get” this, but what we don’t understand is how the brain sustains its illusion of being something, someone. It seems that the only way to find out is to be aware of how thought keeps affirming its belief in itself.

Or as I posted above: to be aware of how we escape from the actuality of being nothing. The very ‘movement’ itself of psychological thought is the escape, no matter what its content. The awareness has to be choice less or there will be identification with it and hence no relationship? Only a choice less awareness can move with thought without reacting to it. Then there is freedom from it.

[macdougdoug]

Choiceless like when we back away from obvious danger.

So is self centred action obviously dangerous?

If not, it might be because we haven’t bothered to look - so busy tryin’ to look good!

[Inquiry]

@danmcderm

Only a choice less awareness can move with thought without reacting to it. Then there is freedom from it.

Awareness is the physical, sensual response to actuality that precedes conditioned response, reaction; awareness doesn’t react.

Awareness is choiceless to begin with, and the brain’s conditioned response interprets awareness according to what the brain chooses or has chosen to believe.

Does choiceless awareness “move with thought”, or is it just aware of thought? If awareness is choiceless, it can’t react to thought because it is just what the organism does, like breathing. Being choiceless means having no choice, and reaction is the consequence of choosing to hold convictions, suspicions, hopes, fears, desires, biases, prejudices, beliefs.

[Inquiry]

@rickScott

And then you fall for it:

Please explain…

[danmcderm]

@macdougdoug

Choiceless like when we back away from obvious danger.

I would say ‘choiceless’ like listening to the sound of the ocean, the wind in the trees, the noise of traffic. Why is it so ‘hard’ to do with one’s thinking? Because the ‘thinker’ thinks that he is doing the thinking? ‘He’ doesn’t think that he’s the traffic or the ocean sound… that is outside but he does think he’s the thinking, which is inside? So there is an ‘identification’ with what is taking place inside the head?

[Inquiry]

@danmcderm

‘He’ doesn’t think that he’s the traffic or the ocean sound… that is outside but he does think he’s the thinking, which is inside?

Which is true because thinking is all he is.

Without thinking there’s only sensation, sensitivity, awareness of one’s inseparability from what one is aware of. Without thinking, there’s only one’s relationship with and reaction to one’s environment.

[Shankar]

Freedom from is not Freedom. Freedom is at the beginning.

[macdougdoug]

@Shankar

Freedom from is not Freedom

What do you mean? Why is freedom from something not really freedom?

[rickScott]

@Inquiry

Please explain…

You say belief sustains the self:

@Inquiry

I am the self saying the self will fail because believing the self will fail is what sustains the self.

And then share your belief:

The self hasn’t failed until it cannot believe anything, and that inability, that innocence, is its transformation.

It’s the same type of scam we all keep falling for, hitching our wagons to subtle beliefs with the thought/hope that the right belief (understanding, view, interpretation) will free us.

[macdougdoug]

I think that in K land we also get extra poo-pooed for believing that belief x will happen if only we can get theory y to come into play.

Also sometimes it sounds like we like theories that imply that we’re doomed to never get it. Kinda lets us off the hook maybe, and allows us to point at anyone who might be acting more chill than me as if they’re being somehow dishonest.

[danmcderm]

@Shankar

Freedom from is not Freedom. Freedom is at the beginning.

I think this is true but why did K use the phrase ‘freedom from the known’?

[WimOpdam]

The only one who can give an honest answer to this is no longer among us.

Everything else is guesswork in his mind!

[rickScott]

@macdougdoug

Also sometimes it sounds like we like theories that imply that we’re doomed to never get it. Kinda lets us off the hook maybe

It’s another variant of The Becoming Game, right? The Story of Me. What am I sans story?

Is freedom from the story of me freedom from the self?