Experiments

Kinfonet Discussion
81

And from that perspective, the self / ego is “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing”?

82

Thank you for saying ‘from that perspective,’ it makes all the difference (to me). :slight_smile:

83

Every question gets: a quick unedited answer (gut) and a longer edited answer (reflective).

If you ask question, Who am I?
What is answer to this question?

I am multitudes.
I am tribe of internal voices/images competing for control and driven by thought-memory.

Who is asking the question?

I am.
The tribe member who’s in charge of asking existential questions.

Who is answering the question?

I am.
There are many voices competing to answer.

Is it thought asking the question?

Thought is involved.
Feels like the tribe member is asking the question, but thought is probably involved.

Is it thinker answering the question?

The thinker is involved.
Does the thinker really exist?

84

But thought provides the answer, so who’s to say it is not thought?

85

Experiment: Observing neuronal energy

  1. Shift your attention from outward- to inward-directed.
  2. Observe the flow of energy through your neuronal web. Not the content, just the energy.
  3. When you’re finished, take stock (and, optionally, share).

Inspiration:

https://cdn.myportfolio.com/1fb036e08f452b57e3ac302e2b5cd2e8/c77d7599-4c63-4692-945f-8c0802866d68_rw_1200.gif?h=69f522fa63a2d2c332e95499885bb332(image larger than 4 MB)

86

Experiment: Staying with suffering and seeing how it affects your energy

  1. When suffering arises, stay with it, as fully/deeply as you can.
  2. Observe your energy and how it is affected by staying with suffering.
  3. When you’re done, take stock and share your observations.
1 Like
87

This is my favourite experiment yet (the others seemed so broken I couldn’t even suggest improvements) - now we just need someone to suffer.

I’m feeling knackered by a hard day at a foreign dojo, worrying about what tomorrow might bring - thats probably a good start for the experiment (but I’ve had enough zazen for today - I’ll probably grab a bite and go to bed)

88

Suffering is always there in the field of the mind, maybe conscious, maybe unconscious, maybe foreground, maybe lurking behind the scene biding its time.

89

I said I liked this experiment, but looking at it again, can we be a bit more precise please?
What do we mean exactly by “stay with x, as fully as you can”?
What is the motivation, what are we trying to achieve?
I think we are being curious, trying to understand what x is, we are not trying to feel x as deeply as we can, as in intensity of x.

90

Please feel free(!) to edit the experiment to give it the precision that’s missing for you. I’ll try both versions and see whether one ‘works better’ for me.

91

I suppose the mad scientist flailing around in the dark must explore every orifice. :sob:

I’m reminded somewhat of Rajneesh and all the types of “meditation” activities he invented.

92

I’m way too anti-rational to be any kind of scientist, even a mad one.

Fool suits me better, I think.

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,

93

Experiment: Observing the suffering from the inside (of suffering)

  1. When suffering arises, try to see what exactly is going on

  2. your job is to be the suffering in order to grok it fully

  3. Report findings if possible

94

Bravo! I will try both variants, yours and mine, and share my results with the class. :slight_smile:

95

I will do my best to perform my experiment too - following from a discussion on “understanding” from another thread : Grok means to understand via being, seeing or via curious observation of or resonating with - as opposed to the construction of a narrative or model based on the known - as opposed to intellectual analysis and deduction.

2 Likes
96

I have complaints about this experiment : when I look, all I see is me looking, and when I look at me, even I dissapear. (and then I start thinking about cats, and my recent adventures, and how the adventures could or should have gone, as opposed to etc)

I also see lots of potential traps in this experiment, based on our relationship to : recognition, imagination, motivation, belief, sensation etc
Based on our confusion I am worried about a scenario where our sensations and imagination and fears feed off each other and snowball into some incestuous mental adventure.

Thats why the buddhas invented goalless meditation - with some simple, boring base (like posture or breath) for us to cling or return to.

If during my observation/experiment I have some exciting adventure (or not) what have we learnt? what can we possibly conclude of worth?

97

I don’t trust excitement, so my observation/experiment is elucidating or it is not. If staying with a feeling I ordinarily escape from reveals what I’m ordinarily oblivious of, it’s a worthwhile experiment.

1 Like
98

In other words : what can we conclude from subjective experience alone? Is there anything worthwhile that we can learn from an experience of our inner reality?

Inquiry seems to be suggesting that we can learn something new. What sort of thing might we be referring to?

99

As we become more sensitive to the things around us and inside us we can become aware of a state where before there was a total identification with, that now we can be in relation to.

100

Experiment: Attentional Round-Trip

  1. Attend as purely as you can to your breath. Rest there for a while.
  2. Let your attention expand to encompass your breath and your body. Rest there.
  3. Let your attention expand to encompass your body and the room you are in. Rest.
  4. Let your attention expand to encompass everything arising in mind: sights, sounds, thoughts.
  5. Rest in it for a while.
  6. Journey back to normal consciousness.