I think that thought has compartmentalized things like meditation i.e. from the ordinary as in “what are you some kind of philosopher?!” 
Of course compartmentalizing is something thought can do and it can do so more or less accurately in an effort to make sense of the world in which we live. And we live in time. The example you give and the expression going with it don’t seem so relevant.
Hello, Maheshji!
You say there is no you to be liberated but thought must be liberated. Of course it’s a matter of precision of language. What we know is that there are those who are liberated and those who aren’t, that is good enough to me.
Maybe not. I was thinking along the lines of: , leave the philosophy to the philosophers, the enlightenment to the ‘gurus’, the poetry to the poets, etc…thought wearing its different hats. Like nations and their boundaries, thought and its different beliefs, religions…wars.
Thought’s favorite hat it seems is the ‘me and mine’, the most resistant of all the ‘reflexes’ perhaps.
Well, Dan, I understood what you meant, but still meditation is not to be categorized along the same lines, I think.
The individual organism doesn’t exist?
Most people won’t look at this except through thought, which already supplies enough answers to perpetuate its own trickery.
You’re implying that you aren’t like most people because you can look without looking “through thought”. Do you expect the reader to believe this?
Then is it possible for thought to find out what happens when it remains only as a question? This is the beginning of real meditation. From this meditation alone comes the possibility of intelligence and compassion.
When thought “remains only as a question”, there is no thought, just meditation, but then you say it is thought that finds out.
One or two people who are serious about this will be enough to effect tremendous change in the world. They will find each other out. They will live together. Those who are not serious can leave it alone and carry on adding to the complications and confusions of thought.
Thanks for confessing your belief and your reason for haunting being here: you are searching for your soulmate.
Not too long ago you announced that you found this person, and you flipped us the bird and fled. Apparently he was not your soul mate, so you’re back.
We’re all rooting for you to find a steadfast soulmate and leave us alone.
No, the question is: can thought liberate itself? There is no such thing as ‘those who are liberated’ - that’s just a lazy way of thinking.
Maheshji, some time ago you had said that all there is is thought. I don’t know where you got this, but following from there it’s alright that all you can ask is in terms of liberation if thought can be liberated. I don’t think all there is is thought and I don’t equate thought with liberation. Thought is a tool we human beings are endowed with, that is all. Thinking and thought are not exactly the same thing, but I don’t think it’s in the way of your concerns.
To talk of those who are liberated only makes sense from a position of total liberation, otherwise it is all theoretical and therefore extremely muddled. Are you one of those who are totally liberated? Obviously not. And neither am I. Therefore why assume that such people even exist? What exists is only a desire for liberation as an ideal. But the truth is never going to be found through ideals.
Enlightenment is also an ideal, especially in the so-called spiritual field. And there are the ideals of love, intelligence and compassion. But none of these things exist except as ideas or concepts formed in the mind. These ideas keep the mind caught within its own limited circle of desires. It is only when the mind starts to question this behaviour that there is any possibility of liberation, which is freedom from the prison of ideals which thought itself has built.
Do you see any of this? Or am I talking rubbish?
I don’t see any of what you’re saying.
Have a good day, Maheshji!
I think Mahesh is saying : “if I have never tasted ice cream, then the taste of ice cream is only something that I imagine”.
But if he is saying :" I have never tasted ice cream therefore ice cream does not exist" - that would be speculation.
First of all, what is it that seeks liberation? Is there even a seeker at all? The seeker after enlightenment will always find something approximate to his ideal, but he will never be satisfied or fulfilled with what he finds. This is what happens to us, if we watch ourselves honestly, especially in these spiritual matters. So one will be forced to move on to seeking more and more of the same with less and less return for the effort. It is a stupid game. Liberation must be right at the start of the journey not at the end. Then it makes sense to talk of it. From the moment that the mind is aware of its own stupidity - which is the stupidity of using ideals to navigate social life and personal relationships - the prison door has already opened.
Liberation is the only form of liberation that actually liberates. (sorry about that statement folks)
Liberation starts with liberation, then can only continue avoiding sclerosis via continued liberation.
Liberation does not always appear spontaneously from the habititual repetition of discrimination.
But our habitual experience of discrimination is all we have to work with.
If we are only half alive, if life cannot touch our hearts, then we shall continue as ghosts in the shadows.
Am I aware of myself enough to accept death ? To accept death now. Wholeheartedly, in all honesty, without any doubt.
Then the door has opened.
Isn’t it a fact that we are always seeing, hearing, feeling things for the FIRST time? But what is rare is to see, hear, feel them AS IF for the first time…is what makes that ‘as if’ so rare, the memories and images stored in the brain, a kind of ‘film’ or ‘coating’ formed over the senses? The past? That would be the ‘observer’?
1 Like
We can be aware of these “memories and images”, in the form of our thoughts, just as they arise, the moment it happens.
We can be aware that we are seeing, sensing through the the ‘smog’ of the past but the awareness of that fact, doesn’t ‘dissolve’ it. Maybe some much deeper insight is necessary? Didn’t K use the word ‘explosion’?
But is this so? If there’s some insight, explosion, it happens because of smth. And this smth can be this awareness
You’re being absolutist again. Many or most of us have had partial insights, and that means that each individual is more or less liberated.
the truth is never going to be found through ideals.
How would you know without knowing the truth?
Enlightenment is also an ideal
Not true. Most (perhaps all) of us have had partial insights, and any degree of insight enlightens and liberates.
And there are the ideals of love, intelligence and compassion. But none of these things exist except as ideas or concepts formed in the mind. These ideas keep the mind caught within its own limited circle of desires.
And no one should know this better than you since you talk constantly about love, intelligence and compassion as if you know what you’re talking about.
It is only when the mind starts to question this behaviour that there is any possibility of liberation, which is freedom from the prison of ideals which thought itself has built.
We hope you’ll begin to question your practice of trying to sound like someone who knows what he’s talking about.
Do you see any of this?
Do you see what you’re doing?
Or am I talking rubbish?
All but one sentence is rubbish. Do you know which one?
This implies that one must begin the futile, “stupid” journey to liberation, when in fact, liberation happens when it isn’t sought, when there is no such journey contemplated, must less begun.
From the moment that the mind is aware of its own stupidity - which is the stupidity of using ideals to navigate social life and personal relationships - the prison door has already opened.
This is true, but if it’s true for you, it means that you have abandoned your stupid search for your soulmate via this forum.
What I mean is that I can be aware that I have a physical habit say but the awareness does not break the habit. Here we’re talking about connections in the brain that are triggered automatically. A ‘complex’ or a ‘system of reflexes’ as Bohm called it. I agree that awareness is absolutely necessary and insight into its workings but not in order to change it…that would only be the conditioning trying to bring about change in itself. Right?
1 Like