Core of the Teachings

Don’t confuse me…,…

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Is there knower/known? Or only: knowing? We think-feel we are entities having experiences. And yes there are experiences being experienced, only a madman (like Rick or maybe Douglas) would question that. But is anyone/anything doing the experiencing? Awareness is not an anyone/anything, right?

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What is the point of identity? What is its function?

Thought ‘identifies ‘ itself as the stream of thinking but also an entity, ‘me’ as the one doing, having the thoughts. Why did it create this duality?

PS Bohm said “because it could”.

Awareness reveals it - thought articulates it.

My consiusness consist of my experiences my opinions my conditioning. My thoughts are a reflextion out of this consiusness With my interpretation’s my beliefs and so on.
Here you have the split.

Consciousness is a collection of past beliefs, opinions, knowledge, interpretations, etc. A ‘storehouse ‘, and from this issues thought / feelings? Where is the “split”?

The split is that “I” is always there. My thoughts are just quick reflextions out billions of conclusions and connections in the consioness. But they are not the totality of the consiosness even if they come from there and I defend them with my life.

Each element of consciousness identifies itself as ‘I’?

There is certainly a physical distance between things ie. between this brain and that brain :brain:. But is the ‘psychological ‘ distance between them actual or is it illusory? This connects with the idea of ‘observer is the observed’ in some way?

It’s amazing to see i am humanity, or the faith is just my/our desire and others

After 20 years of Krishnamurti i still have the same ego. And you? :smiley:

So the problem is the split of thinker and thought, or Krishnamurti is another in a series of traps

"The questioner asks: How can I observe in my current state of fragmentation? You cannot. But you can observe your fragmentation. In observing yourself you discover that you are looking with certain prejudices. And you forget to look at yourself and go into the question of prejudice. You become aware of your prejudice; can you look at it without any sense of distortion, without choice? Just observe the prejudices; let prejudice tell you the story, not you tell the story about prejudice; let prejudice unroll itself; the cause of prejudice, the image, conclusions and opinions.

So you begin to discover in looking at prejudice that you are fragmented and that that fragmentation is brought about by thought; naturally, therefore, you begin to be aware of the movement of thought.

You are confused; what is this confusion? Who has created this confusion, in you and outside of you? Observing confusion, you begin to be aware of the movement of thought, of the contradictory nature of thought; let the whole thing unroll itself as you watch."

Questions and Answers - Jiddu Krishnamurti (jiddu-krishnamurti.net)

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What is the “contradictory nature of thought”?
If what ends the brain/ mind’s confusion is for it to be silent, empty, unoccupied etc, then any movement of unnecessary thought is a contradiction?

Why would it go silent ? So used as it is to continual narration.

The action of awareness and silence, can either be an effort (due to some belief in freedom) or a new habit arising from seeing the confusion for what it is : needless and painful confusion.

Any “effort” for silence is more noise?
Any “habitual” activity is more noise?
Is it that stillness, silence, emptiness is not an action but the absence of the usual ‘movement’ of thought? And the only way this comes about in the moment is by ‘attention’ to thought’s movement? Hence the need for enormous energy to maintain the un-occupation of the brain / mind? But as you say the need for this unoccupied mind has to be seen. (Perhaps it is the core of this teaching?)

effort = knowledge and conflict (aka noise)

habit = conditioned reflex (so we have to say noise too)

But the habit of freedom from self does not have the same effects as the habit of being the self.

Indeed

The enormous energy is what is required to turn this tremendous movement of need that has been flowing for thousands of years into an immediate 180° about turn. From a driving force of accumulation, into a moment of self awareness.
And once I have been seen for what I am, I am easily, effortlessly wary of my movement.
Once you have been revolted by something, no effort is needed, you don’t even have to remind yourself to be on the lookout - the merest smell of it makes you gag.

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You don’t have to be told not to play with the snake or get too near the edge of the precipice.

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I read about observer is the observed long ago. It never help me with my social phobia, with my tension. I have a sick mind or brain and i was looking for remedy. I understand the tension is me, but so what, it never goes away by my volition. Another words - Meditation is the meditator. Krishnamurti said that in those words are truth in it. So ok.

As I understand the K message Helen, it’s not about ‘buttressing’ the ego but about ‘undermining’ it?

My volition for it to go away, is the tension.

Me wanting me to not be me, is just aggravating the me.

The purpose of the me is to want. Just like the purpose of the immune system is to protect from disease.
Sometimes these processes or systems are working away too hard.

No. All you can do is take note of this particular prejudice and examine it closely. Nevertheless, it’s a breakthrough that is possible only when thought is illuminated by awareness.

Just observe the prejudices; let prejudice tell you the story, not you tell the story about prejudice; let prejudice unroll itself; the cause of prejudice, the image, conclusions and opinions.

Yes, and this is the psychological revolution. The authority of thought is in question because awareness is exposing its incoherence.