How does “explanation” create division?
Surely there is a difference between sharing truth, and wanting to “‘help’ those of us who suffer”?
Doesn’t your assumption (your word) inflict an unwarranted motivation upon K?
It is truth that sets humanity free, and that is what K shared - without motivation!
1 Like
Yes when asked once, what he wanted, he said " I don’t want anything."
i’m not clear about my recollection of this, but it was that , helping people out of their psychological suffering was not doing them any favors?
In other words, the ‘suffering’ is necessary?
Suffering is inevitable. Unless the disorder of humanity is totally understood there is no change.
K said it all, over his lifetime. And he never compromised the truth.
There are no short-cuts - no half-way measures. So - one either embraces the entirety of the truth, or one continues to live a life of suffering. It really is as simple as that.
The teaching of K is not about making us all feel good!
There is a difference between explanation and going into it together. Explanation must always involve an explainer separate from the explained, a subject separate from its object of interest, a teacher and a learner. If we have really gone into this together, looked carefully at the whole field of enquiry, then surely we have come to the point where we see without a shadow of doubt that there is absolutely nothing else we can do to solve our psychological problems. Therefore there is no longer the desire to solve them because we see that our suffering is embodied in the desire to be free from it. If you say, ‘But I don’t see it,’ it means you are still looking for a result. Psychologically, there is no result, no reward, because each new answer brings only more questions.
What truth are you referring to? And what do you mean by embrace?
The truth Thomas - is that which is happening - the disorder of humanity. Is the human brain in order, or is it in disorder?
And ‘embrace’: understand completely the fact of it, without distortion in order to feel good. Take responsibility, because we human beings are responsible for the disorder we have inflicted upon this planet and it creatures.
1 Like
Our lives are in disorder, yet we feel that if we make an effort …try hard enough…that we can bring order. Not necessarily to feel good, but to have some stability and economic and psychological security. And very few of us feel responsible for the ‘outward’ disorder…the wars, violent crime, homelessness, alcoholism that we see in the world. We want to carve out a little safe niche for ourselves where we have a secure well paying job and a spouse with whom to raise a family. This has been the way of mankind for many centuries. But the vast majority of us never really succeed in this endeavor. So we suffer. So how do we begin to ‘embrace’ (your word) the fact that we suffer and we live in disorder? Or, where do we begin on our journey to “understand completely the fact of it”?
What you say here is true Thomas. And look where we human beings are now.
K never gave a ‘how’. For a very good reason. A ‘how’ would prevent finding out firsthand, and it would create a mechanical response. We already have plenty of those: prayers - rituals… and none are relevant. They add to disorder.
There is only one ‘where’. Where one is - in this moment.
One can move around the teaching of K, searching for a safe place for the self. It isn’t there. One can pretend it is there - (one can fool oneself of anything) - but this leads to more expectations and still deeper suffering. And blame: K failed! No - we fail to understand.
There is listening. Really going very deeply into the teaching of K - every aspect of it - without imposing one’s own desires onto it. Hearing the truth of it - expecting nothing - yet living that truth moment to moment. Finding out what reveals…
Patricia: K never gave a ‘how’. For a very good reason. A ‘how’ would prevent finding out firsthand, and it would create a mechanical response. We already have plenty of those: prayers - rituals… and none are relevant. They add to disorder.
Right…a how creates further division…a goal…an ideal to work towards…effort to achieve. This has been man’s path forever.
There is only one ‘where’. Where one is - in this moment.
One can move around the teaching of K, searching for a safe place for the self. It isn’t there. One can pretend it is there - (one can fool oneself of anything) - but this leads to more expectations and still deeper suffering. And blame: K failed! No - we fail to understand.
True enough. Yet the ‘teaching’ is there…the 50+ years of talks, to work with. He left the talks…protected them…for a reason…because he thought there was something there worth preserving.
There is listening. Really going very deeply into the teaching of K - every aspect of it - without imposing one’s own desires onto it. Hearing the truth of it
Yes, either we ‘hear’ what he’s saying or we don’t. All we can do is to ‘listen’.
- expecting nothing
However, when there’s suffering, we always have an expectation that someone or something will help. We don’t turn on a K. video for no reason whatsoever. We are looking for help or we’d just watch a comedy or escapist film of some sort. We can’t turn off the mind, and that’s the way the human brain functions. When we suffer, we seek a remedy. When we have a headache we look for the bottle of aspirin. Possibly, when all ‘outside’ remedies fail, we will face ‘what is’ in ourselves…as it is…not as it ‘should be’. And when we get rid of the ‘should be’ and the ideal, where’s the problem, then? isn’t a big part of the problem the reaching out to something…making an effort to achieve and having an ‘idea’ or ideal/s?
- yet living that truth moment to moment. Finding out what reveals…
The teaching of K is a treasure for humanity. Just as truth is precious. K brought it all together and shares it.
Yes - to come to the teaching wanting something for one’self’ will prevent understanding. The teaching is not about healing the self. Is it?
Negation - letting go - demands great energy. To understand that everything humanity believes is based upon wrong assumptions is challenging.
To truly see that the self is a myth, built upon the conditioned belief over millennia that it will somehow be a protection against all fear, is shocking. And it is only the self - this myth - that feels psychological suffering and hurt. Isn’t it Thomas?
So - to understand the teaching of K and the deep beauty of it, requires negation of everything that we human beings hold sacred.
No, the body also feels the effects of it.
If one negates everything the negation itself is beauty. Along with the negation, K and his teachings will also be negated.
Not just that (your last sentence) but the negation (understanding} of what ‘I’ am…not just the fear and anger and violence which is part of ‘me’…but the attachments and pleasures…attachment to my house, my career, my ambitions, my new car, my favorite sports team, my TV and films, books, clothes, jewelry, favorite food and drink, and so on. The self is built around pleasure as well as fear.
2 Likes
And most ‘sacred’ is, that I exist!
Not to confuse “hold sacred” with the Sacred.
1 Like
Me and my memories. That’s what I hold sacred. My memory of you …my wife or child…is more real to me than the living person.
Yes <Peter, that’s the holy truth, what we hold is not “Sacred” 
1 Like
K said the ‘sacred’ is, is ‘what is’.
Going back to the point of what we hold most sacred, Dan said it’s the feeling that ‘I exist’. Would you say it’s knowledge as well? Knowledge that I exist…knowledge of what I am…knowledge of right and wrong…knowledge of you, or knowledge of what ‘should be’? We hold ‘my’ knowledge as something real and true…sacrosanct.This brings to mind the title of one of K’s books, “Freedom from the Known”. Perhaps we should explore this issue in another thread.
To question everything. All knowledge, all images, all beliefs, all authority.
Understanding that we human beings are in total disorder because of conditioned responses to all these matters. And we continue to build assumption upon assumption, and so the mess goes on - increasingly.
There is nothing that humanity has got right. It is necessary to start there.
1 Like